I’ve talked about coincidences before on my blog. It seems there is always a little taste of it in genealogy research. Two of the first coincidences that I remember coming across, I’ve already blogged about. The time I found someone from my mother’s side of the family, in a book halfway across the country that my father’s side of the family owned. The other time was when I got some Redford family photos from my Great-Aunt Barb and it had William H. Moore written on the back. This would be a generation before my Moore grandfather married my Redford grandmother.
I’m back today with another Redford coincidence, but this time when it comes to the address they lived at. Between 1910 and 1920, Herbert Redford and his wife Sadie Sutcliffe-Redford lived at 16 Gist Place in Orange, New Jersey.
Well, now that I know who Sadie’s parents are, I was able to do some census searching for her siblings and parents. It just so happens I found another coincidence around the corner and a couple blocks away from Herbert and Sadie’s residence.
The location of this other household is not the coincidence. It’s their surname.
The household at 197 Day Street is the home of John Gist and his wife Alice. Alice’s maiden name just happens to be Sutcliffe and her sister Elizabeth Sutcliffe even lives with her. Alice and Elizabeth are the sisters of my 2nd great-grandmother, Sarah (Sadie) Ann Sutcliffe.
It’s definitely a small genealogy world. It’s crazy to think Sadie’s family has been there all this time. I’ve had Herbert and Sadie entered into my database for over 10 years and now, I find Sadie’s sister just a few census pages from her in 1910.
Note: This research was done before I started my Genealogy Do-Over.
While I am starting the Genealogy Do-Over/Go-Over, I am not researching anything new. However, I had a couple of post ideas before I started that I thought I’d still share.
I recently got in the marriage record for Paul Sutcliffe and Mary Senior from the State Archives. The New Jersey State Archives is a wonderful source of New Jersey information for me and I am planning a trip there someday, hopefully soon!
What I usually do after I’m done analyzing a new record is I hit census records and I hit Find a Grave. Just to see what kind of opposition I’m going to run into with the new people in my tree. Paul Sutcliffe and Mary Senior have to be two of the easier people in my tree to search for. I haven’t tried super hard yet, but I was able to find possibilities for Mary’s parents pretty quickly. Ancestry suggested a Find a Grave link to me, so that was even better.
Here is the entry on Find a Grave for who I think Mary Senior-Sutcliffe’s father is. Everything looks fine here, it doesn’t have Mary listed as a child but that’s no big deal. Then I saw that there was a huge group of Senior graves in that top picture and I needed to blow it up a bit.
Well folks, that is exciting and disappointing at the same time. Exciting because I might have gone back another generation, and disappointing because the tombstone was cut off. Thats alright though, because I still have potential parents and siblings of Mary Senior to explore. I even have a cemetery location to look at. If they are in a family plot, that will tell me a lot about Paul and Mary. I checked Find a Grave, but the Sutcliffes aren’t listed. I suppose whoever did the Senior graves didn’t know that Mary might be a Senior. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree completely and that tombstone says Westcliffe.
I will be adding this to my to-do list for when I get there in my re-analyzation of my records!
I watched a great tutorial video from Amy Johnson Crow about Adobe Spark. I was inspired to make a video about my grandmother’s ancestors to share with my family. I also attended a Google Hangout with DearMYRTLE’s distant cousin, Sweet Sadie, which was another great walk-through of creating a video. It was a fun, quick process… well besides hearing myself talk. That’s always strange!
There is also the option to create what they call “pages” and “posts”. I didn’t try the pages section yet, but had a little fun with the post section.
Wow, that’s a big, crisp image! I just took a free stock image of Scotland (my dream destination) and used all the different font and shape settings Adobe Spark had pre-built. My blog template will shrink it down to fit a certain size but the original dimensions of the image is 2052 pixels by 2052 pixels. I have to say I love this and will definitely be playing more with it!
In 2011, I posted one picture from my great-grandmother’s collection. It was of a Decoration Day parade in Caldwell, New Jersey. Here is another few pictures from that same day. I happen to also know thanks to Llewellyn’s diary, that her and her mother used to volunteer with her church to decorate the graves of veterans also. She sure was one great lady. I am thinking of all our fallen soldiers today.
Randy Seaver has posted another great Saturday Night Genealogy Fun topic! The mission this week is to list the occupations of my ancestors. Well, I certainly can do that! To protect privacy, I will omit anyone who is still living.
Randy suggested using the Ancestor Chart number for each person, so here we go!
Herbert Redford happens to be one of my favorite ancestors. I know I’m not supposed to play favorites but I just can’t help it. He is the first ancestor whose record I sent away for. I was so excited and it took quite a long time. It was well worth it though. 🙂 Plus I have this photo I believe to be him. It was passed down through the family and I was given a photocopy of it where someone identified him as “Herbert Redford”.
Herbert is 7 years old living in East Orange, New Jersey. He is going to school with his older brother William. His dad is working as a hat manufacturer, which is a trade that was passed down from Frances Travis-Redford‘s family.
March 20, 1894
Herbert marries my 2nd great grandmother Sarah (Sadie) Ann Sutcliffe (daughter of Paul Sutcliffe and Mary S. Senior) in Bloomfield, New Jersey. Herbert lists his occupation as Hatter, continuing the occupation to the fourth generation through his mother’s family. Both Herbert and Sadie were 21 at the time of their marriage.
The United States Census rolls around again. Herbert and Sadie are now living on Whittley Avenue in West Orange. They own their home but have a mortgage. His sister Sarah Redford-Tinston and her husband are living with the family.
June 1905
Herbert is enumerated in Essex County, New Jersey in the State Census. He is living with his wife Sadie and their three children. Also living in the house is Herbert‘s brother William and William’s son Harry Redford, age 10. Herbert‘s mother Frances Travis-Redford is also living in the household. They own their home but have a mortgage on it.
Note: I will have to go to the State Archives to see the actual census. All I have online is an index. 🙂
Herbert is working as a hat finisher. He has been married for 17 years and they have 4 total children now, with all still living. His brother William is still living with him and is also working at a hat factory. William’s son is now living in Los Angeles, California with his aunt Sarah Redford-Tinston. Herbert’s mother Frances is now living with her daughter Lillian Redford-Stemmle. They live at 16 Gist Place, Orange, New Jersey and they pay rent.
1912
According to a 1912 Orange, New Jersey city directory, Frances Travis-Redford (wid of Samuel), removes to Los Angeles, California.
September 12, 1919
Herbert fills out a World War I Draft Registration Card. There is no evidence he ever had any military service. His occupation is listed as Hatter. He is described as being short (tell me about it. haha), Medium build and he had blue eyes and brown hair. He gives his address as 16 Gist Place, Orange, New Jersey.
January 1920
Herbert and Sadie are still renting their house at 16 Gist Place. He is still employed at a Hatter. Their sons Clifford (age 25) and Howard (age 22) still live at home. The youngest child, Lillian (age 13) is also living there. The household also now has a boarder named Alfred Ireland who is a machinist in a factory.
Herbert‘s mother Frances dies in Los Angeles, California of chronic myocarditis. She was 80 years old. She is buried at the Independent Order of Odd Fellows Cemetery in Los Angeles. Sarah Redford-Tinston is the informant on the record.
1924
Note: Herbert’s wife Sadie possibly died in this year. I don’t know the place, but my current thinking is New Jersey. There is a Sadie Redford buried in Rosedale Cemetery in Orange, New Jersey. Someone took a picture of the grave for me on Find A Grave, but there is nothing on the marker to indicate this is my Sadie. The year does fit for her birth year.
April 1930
Herbert is now widowed and living as a lodger in Los Angeles, California. He is one of nine lodgers in the house of Margaret Clement. All the boarders have various types of jobs and are from lots of different places.
April 1940
Herbert and his sister Lillian Redford-Stemmle are living together at 3469 Siskiyou Street in Los Angeles, California. Lillian is listed as widowed but Herbert is listed as single. The x mark indicates Herbert is the person giving the information. Herbert states that he is a Hatter but has been unemployed for 16 weeks.. He also says he is actively seeking work.
September 11, 1940
Herbert dies in Los Angeles, California at the age of 67. His cause of death was chronic myocardial degeneration due to Coronary Artery Sclerosis. The Informant on his death certificate is his daughter Lillian Redford-Swiggart. (Whom I previously thought went missing.) He was buried at the Independent Order of Odd Fellows Cemetery in Los Angeles and a kind Find a Grave volunteer fulfilled a photo request for me. 🙂
Records to Find:
I want to fill the gap between 1880 and the 1890s.
Samuel Redford’s birth record.
The 1905 Census entries at the New Jersey State Archives. ( I would like to make a list of ALL people that I would like to find before I go.)
Records to Order:
Herbert’s birth record from the New Jersey State Archives
His siblings birth records from the New Jersey State Archives
Samuel Redford Jr’s death record from the New Jersey State Archives
Marriage Record for William Redford
Birth Records for Herbert and Sadie’s children.
Samuel Redford Sr’s death certificate from New Jersey State Archives.
Just last week, I wrote about how my thinking has changed over the 13 years I’ve researched my family history. I’ve spent a lot of time over the past two weeks watching videos and reading genealogy books. It’s very funny how much my thinking has changed over just the last few weeks. The more I learn, the more I realize that I didn’t have brick walls before but brain walls.
The reason I say brain walls is because what used to seem insurmountable, just isn’t anymore. Things are challenging, or they test my knowledge but never does it feel like I’m stuck. Okay, George Thorward sometimes makes me feel stuck. That’s only because I need to get access to more records or learn more about something. It feels like something finally switched in my head. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m analyzing the data better or because I’m becoming more knowledgeable about how to do things. I don’t have a college educated background in research and things, so I didn’t start with all this knowledge on how to write-up reports or do huge research projects. I’m just trying to learn the best I can. Really that’s all any of us can do I guess.
Have you ever had something just click in your head? I’m sorry for all the rambling posts lately, I am just being very contemplative as I get ready for my Genealogy Do-Over.
This weeks timeline focus is my great-grandfather, William Harmon Mays. Lets see what I can find to do next with him. 🙂
June 2, 1872
William Harmon Mays is born to John Mays and Celia Slusher in Elliott County, Kentucky. He is their second child and first son. [1. Ohio Department of Health, Division of Vital Statistics, death certificate 14438 (1952), William Harmon Mays; digital image, FamilySearch (http://www.familysearch.org : accessed 18 Sep 2010)]
June 1880
William is counted in the 1880 United States Census. He is 8 years old and lives with his parents and older sister in Elliott County, Kentucky. John and Celia tell the census taker they are unable to read and write. John is also sick with dysentary.
1880 U.S. census, population schedule, Elliott County, Kentucky. Martinsburg township, enumeration district (ED) 20, p. 579-C, dwelling 117, family 117, John Mays; digital images, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 1 Apr 2016); citing National Archives and Records Administration microfilm T9, roll 412.
June 1900
William is going by his middle name of Harmon on the 1900 United States Census. He is working as a farm laborer for Andrew Fraley in Elliott County, Kentucky.
1900 U.S. census, population schedule, Elliott County, Kentucky. Devils Fork township, enumeration district (ED) 17, sheet 06-A, dwelling 98, family 98, Andrew Fraley; digital images, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 16 May 2016); citing National Archives and Records Administration microfilm T623, roll 518.
October 19, 1905
William marries Sarah Elizabeth McDaniels in Rowan County, Kentucky. The wedding takes place at her father’s residence. This is the first marriage for 33 year old William and 17 year old Sarah.
Rowan County, Kentucky, Marriage Register 1880-1954, 5, 1904-1906: 327, Mays-McDaniel, 19 Oct 1905; digital images, FamilySearch (http://www.familysearch.org : accessed 18 Mar 2016)
September 1, 1906
William’s first child, Mary Jane Mays is born in Morehead, Rowan, Kentucky. William is 34 years old and Sarah is 18 years old. [2. Clermont County, Ohio, Marriage Records, 1800-2013, 35, 1926-1930: 228, Jegley-Mays, 1928; digital images, Family Search (http://www.familysearch.org : accessed 24 Mar 2016).]
January-May 1910
Family Lore: I believe sometimes in this time period Sarah dies. The rumor in the family was that she was sick with tuberculosis. We have no records to indicate that.
May 1910
William is counted with his wife Elizabeth and young daughter Mary in the 1910 United States Census. They are living in Rowan County, Kentucky next to his parents. He owns his own farm. Elizabeth is crossed out of the census, but all her information is there.
1910 U.S. census, population schedule, Rowan County, Kentucky. Hogtown township, enumeration district (ED) 156, sheet 14-A, dwelling 226, family 227, William H. Maize; digital images, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 16 May 2016); citing National Archives and Records Administration microfilm T624, roll 498.
November 11, 1914
William‘s mother, Celia Slusher-Mays, dies at the age of 73 in Tate township, Clermont, Ohio. She suffered from Mitral insufficiency and senility for 6 months. The informant for her death is Harmon Mays. [3. Ohio Department of Health, Division of Vital Statistics, death certificate 59028 (1914), Cela Mays; Ohio Department of Health, Columbus.]
April 27, 1918
William marries Iva Belle Moyer in Clermont County, Ohio. William lists his parents as John Mays and Celia Slusser. He states he has been married once before. Iva had never been married before.
Family Lore: My grandmother told me that Iva Belle started off taking care of Mary Jane (Janie), and William married her later. She gave the impression is was a year or more after Iva began caring for Janie.
Clermont County, Ohio, Marriage Records, 1800-2013 285, Mays-Moyer, 1918; digital images, Family Search (http://www.familysearch.org : accessed 17 Mar 2016)
January 1920
William is now living in Monroe township, Clermont County, Ohio. He is now renting the farm he lives on with his second wife, Iva Belle Moyer. His daughter, Mary Jane Mays, is now thirteen years old. William’s father, John is living with the family and he is now able to read and write.
Observation: It’s very cool to me that John learned to read and write between 1880 and 1920. It looks as if he could write in 1910, but not read. Just very awesome and shows you it is never too late to learn things.
1920 U.S. census, population schedule, Clermont County, Ohio. Monroe township, enumeration district (ED) 60, sheet 03-A, dwelling 52, family 52, William H. Mays; digital images, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 16 May 2016); citing National Archives and Records Administration microfilm T625, roll 1355
January 21, 1923
My grandfather, Stanley Mays, is born to William and Iva Belle Mays in Tate township, Ohio. He is their first child. His birth was originally falsely recorded as being in 1913 but it was corrected in April of 1923. This isn’t a false correction. The birth certificate was pre-printed with 191__ and it was corrected to be sure that 1923 was given as the correct year of birth. [4. Ohio Bureau of Vital Statistics, returned 910 (1923), Stanley Lee Mays; Ohio Department of Health, Columbus.]
May 3, 1924
William and Iva’s second child, Ralph Dallas Mays is born in Tate township, Ohio. This is their last child. His birth certificate doesn’t show his name but the details all match him. [5. Ohio Bureau of Vital Statistics, 43991 (1924), blank; Ohio Department of Health, Columbus.]
January 20, 1927
William‘s father, John Mays, dies in Tate township, Ohio at the age of 84. He had internal injuries after falling. No other details were given at the time of his death. Harmon Mays is the informant for his death. John’s name on his death certificate is listed as Harmon Mays and the cemetery office also lists him as Harmon. These are the only two times I have heard of John referenced to as Harmon. [6. Ohio Department of Health, Division of Vital Statistics, death certificate 639 (1927), Harmon Mays; digital image, FamilySearch (http://www.familysearch.org : accessed 26 Sep 2010)]
January 11, 1928
William‘s oldest child, Mary Jane Mays marries George Jegley in Clermont, Ohio. She lists her parents as Harmon Mays and Elizabeth McDaniel. She lists her birthplace as Morehead, Kentucky. [2. Clermont County, Ohio, Marriage Records, 1800-2013, 35, 1926-1930: 228, Jegley-Mays, 1928; digital images, Family Search (http://www.familysearch.org : accessed 24 Mar 2016).]
May 1930
William is 57 years old in the 1930 United States Census. He is now living in Tate township with his wife Iva and two sons, Stanley (my grandfather) and Ralph.
1930 U.S. census, population schedule, Clermont County, Ohio. Tate township, enumeration district (ED) 19, sheet 07-A, dwelling 178, family 186, Harmon Mays; digital images, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 16 May 2016); citing National Archives and Records Administration microfilm T626, roll 1758.
May 1940
William is now shown as living in Monroe township. It should be noted that he is probably living in the same area and not moving around. This is a rural area and these townships are usually all near each other. William and his sons are grain and tobacco farmers. Tobacco was big for this area and our family is even kind of known for it.
1940 U.S. census, population schedule, Clermont County, Ohio. Monroe township, enumeration district (ED) 15, sheet 17-B, household 367, William H. Mays; digital images, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : accessed 16 May 2016); citing National Archives and Records Administration microfilm T627, roll 3041.
Family Lore: Some members of the family say they married in Kentucky, and some say Ohio. I am still looking for their marriage certificate.
October 2, 1949
William‘s second wife Iva, died after a year long illness at the age of 55. Her cause of death was heart disease. The informant on her death certificate is William Harmon Mays. [7. Ohio Department of Health, Division of Vital Statistics, death certificate 61919 (1949), Iva Belle Mays; digital image, FamilySearch (http://www.familysearch.org : accessed 18 May 2016)]
January 19, 1952
William‘s second son, Ralph, dies in Tate township, Ohio at the age of 27. The informant on his death certificate is my grandfather, Stanley Mays. [8. Ohio Department of Health, Division of Vital Statistics, death certificate 07293 (1952), Ralph Dallas Mays; Ohio Department of Health, Columbus]
March 7, 1952
William dies at the age of 79 in Monroe township, Ohio. It says on his death certificate that he had arteriosclerosis for many years before his death. His parents are listed as John Mays and Cecelia Gray. His daughter Mrs. George Jegley is the informant on his death certificate.
Ohio Department of Health, Division of Vital Statistics, death certificate 14438 (1952), William Harmon Mays; digital image, FamilySearch (http://www.familysearch.org : accessed 18 Sep 2010)
Records to Find:
I am still looking for some kind of birth record for William. There should be a county birth record, I just have to locate it.
Stanley and Emogene’s marriage certificate. Might be in Campbell County, Kentucky.
There is a 20 year gap between 1880 and 1900. I need to fill this space in with alternate records.
I will probably look into Andrew Fraley’s family also. Since William lived and worked on his farm, it might help me to find more information on William.
Records to Order:
I can’t think of any records to order at this time. Everything else for William will most likely have to be done in person. I will need to research which records are available.
Note: There are more events but I didn’t put them to protect the privacy of living individuals. 🙂
I don’t usually do blog posts this close together, but I just had to share my latest break through. I was attending one of Legacy Family Tree’s webinars (Mining Uber-sites for Germany Ancestors by James Beidler) and using one of the tips, broke down my not-so brick wall. This brick wall has stumped us all for years. I’ve talked about George Thorward before.
An Unexpected, Yet Expected Turn – George shows up in his marriage record as George Yohn and I end the entry with the question: Who are you George?
Mysterious Ancestors: I tried to examine this George Yohn/George Thorward thing yet again.
George Yohn… Again: I got Josephine and George’s marriage record in the mail
Timeline: George Thorward: Again, I use a timeline strategy to sort out what I know about George Thorward/Yohn. Note: Eagle eye readers will notice I state at the beginning that I lost the article that showed where he came from in Germany. Then post that same article at the bottom of the post. Talk about losing things right in front of your face!
That brings us all up to date except for the recent revelations. I’ve been blocked when it comes to George for a long time. Until about a week ago that is. On Facebook, a conversation between some Thorward cousins popped up. My 2nd cousin 2x removed (haha, I love that), happened to mention that her father (grandson to George Thorward) used to tell a story about George. According to her father, the story is that George and his brother came to Newark, New Jersey in 1866 from Wüerttemberg to escape serving under the King of Bismark. According to him, George was 12 at the time. They came to Newark to stay with their sister whose last name was Gantz and she had a hat factory. The family lore also says their last name was originally Weigel but that the brothers made up the name Thorward. George then got a job on a farm in Towaco, New Jersey. There he met and married the farmer’s daughter, Josephine Doremus. My 2nd cousin also believed that George’s brother was Benjamin and he went west to the Chicago area. I will dissect this family lore in another entry on another day. There is going to have to be another timeline soon I think. 🙂
Now I had always heard about George and a brother who came with him, but I could never find the brother to substantiate anything having to do with a brother. George and his descendants were the only Thorward ever in New Jersey that I could find. There was one other Thorward family that pops up in the mid-west but I never had any connection to them. I know I should have been a good genealogist and researched them also. I mean if you think about it, there was only that one other family so they had to be related somehow. I just never got around to it with all my other things going on. Note to myself, a to do list will help with this in the future, haha. This other family was headed by Benjamin Thorward and he did say he was from Wüerttemberg. So now I will definitely be adding that family to my to-do list!
Fast forward to today’s Germany webinar and I got one little tip that sparked in my head. I was watching when I saw a database pop up as an example. It was called the Wüerttemberg, Germany Emigration Index. All I put into the search box was George Weigel. I didn’t add anything else.
This was the very first search result. I’m not going to lie to you, I might have blacked out for the second half of the webinar. I will definitely be re-watching it because it was full of such good tips. I just can’t remember any of them at the moment. Ifthis turns out to be a match, it would also explain where the Yohn/John comes from in the earlier records for George.
I am very excited about this for a lot of reasons. I know this still has a long way to go to be a stronger connection. I have plenty of records I still want to get my hands on for both of my candidates here. I believe the next record I will get is George’s New Jersey death record and see what that says. It was on my to do list anyway. Plus I want to learn a lot more about this section of Germany and what was happening at the time.
So all of this is very exciting for me but I know there is still tons of work ahead. I’m sorry if I come across a little scattered but my brain is moving 500 miles per hour! Never fear though, I am taking a cooling off period and slowing down. I will be examining lots more records before I determine if this is my guy or not. I am so much closer than I ever was before though!
Records to Order:
George Thorward’s death certificate from New Jersey. The issues that kept George from stating his real name in the beginning of his America journey, probably wasn’t shared by whoever filled out his death certificate. His wife was still alive, maybe she was aware of his family history. I might not ever be able to 100% prove the Weigel connection, but it won’t be from lack of trying.
Records to Find:
An immigration record for either George Thorward, George Yohn, or Johann Georg Weigel.
I am going to try and track down the sister by the name of Gantz.
City directories – George showed up in many directories once his name was Thorward but maybe he used one of his A.K.A.’s in Newark before moving to the more rural area.
Maybe a naturalization record would give some great information. As early as 1900 George stated on the censuses that he was naturalized. If he was telling the truth, that should give me something!
I want to look for a will for George in New Jersey. It could be he might mention a brother or nephews/nieces in his will.
The land records for George’s house on Central Avenue.
Any more newspaper mentions of my George to see if it gives anymore about his German history or family.
Research the other Thorward family that shows up in the mid-west. This is allegedly George’s brother. Maybe I will find records to help me, by researching them.
You can be sure you’ll be hearing more about this in the future!
