Category Archives: Menzies Family

Making some Observations

I worked quite a bit yesterday on my maternal lines. The only drawback is it burned me out a little bit on researching. So I decided to switch to my paternal line, and just kind of observe it in pedigree format in FTM2012.

click for full size

Here are some things I’ve noticed:

  1. Josephine Doremus is the only one of my 3rd great grandparents that wasn’t an immigrant.  All others that are listed were born in other countries
  2. The missing spots in my 3rd great grandparents aren’t immigrants… at least I don’t think. I have possible parents for both Jennie Featherson and Sarah/Sadie Sutcliffe, just no paper trail yet.
  3. My Moore line is completely Irish.
  4. My Thorward line is a quarter German, a quarter ?, and half Scottish.
  5. My Redford line  is half English and half ?.
  6. My Parkin line is half English and half ?.
  7. All the known immigrant ancestors on my paternal line were all here before 1875.
  8. This entry has been sitting idle for 45 minutes because I’m watching Ugly Betty on Netflix Streaming.
  9. I probably shouldn’t “work” in a room with a TV, much less one with Instant Streaming capabilities.
  10. Featherson and Sutcliffe don’t sound like normal names. They’re not exactly Thorward, if you get my drift, but they aren’t Moore or Johnson either.

Researching Trip to Scotland

Hello everyone! Long time no blog post from me! Sorry about that, summer gets kind of crazy around the Moore household. I’m writing today because my long lost cousin Grace, is making a trip to Scotland this September and she wanted to know some pointers about research across the pond. She’s going with her husband and son, so this isn’t a complete research trip. She was just wondering if there was anything that she could look up while she was there. The only problem is, I’ve never researched in person anywhere but Ohio and Maryland. So I have no idea if there’s anything she can look up.

We know our Loves lived in Paisley, and we know the Menzies were in Morton by Thornhill before going to Liverpool and from there to America. Most of this we know only through FamilySearch databases, Scotland directories, and some family recollections. After the success I had with my last request for tips, I thought it was worth a try again!

If anything, maybe cousin Grace can get me a nice picture of Castle Menzies, I kind of obsess about it. Hopefully someone reading this can be as helpful for her as she’s been for me!

Revisiting an Old Entry, Menzies Style

I’m revisiting an old entry today. That entry is the one from September titled, Menzies News. In that entry I examined a census record that I thought might be William Menzies in 1861. This is important to me because only a few of the Menzies siblings stayed behind in England. William strikes a cord with me because in a letter to his sister he wrote, “I am quite sure I will never stay in England all my life as I am quite tired of it.” I can’t help but wonder if he ever made it.

In the entry, I also mention that I found a marriage record for William Menzies and Ellen Patterson. The only problem was I couldn’t be sure that was my William. The index on familysearch.org only had the name of the groom’s father listed. With such common names like John and William, and no other clues, I couldn’t be sure if this was in fact my William Menzies.

That all changed yesterday. You see on April 19th, Ancestry.com added a huge number of Liverpool, Lancashire, England Church Records. This includes baptisms, christenings, marriages, and burials. I was fortunate enough to find the marriage record that I questioned so many months ago.

Having indexed a lot of English Parish Records for Family Search, I knew that the marriage records also had occupation of the father as an entry on the certificate. So when I found the marriage in the index, I didn’t just throw it out. I made a notation of the indexed information for coming back to later. Now I am 100% positive that this is my William Menzies. John Menzies was a Sawyer by trade in 1841 and 1851. Therefore I know it is him. Also serving as witness to the marriage is Helen Scott, or how I know her Helen Menzies-Scott. I found her marriage record too by the way (with sister Margaret serving as witness)!

New information that comes with this record is Williams occupation as a dentist. As a refresher, two of his siblings were druggists/pharmacists. This is important because the William Menzies I found in the 1861 England census had an occupation of Mechanical Dentist. At the time, I realized for this family a dentist isn’t out of the ordinary. Most of the people I see are laborers and farmers. So when I found a family full of druggists, a dentist doesn’t seem to be such a stretch.

I still don’t know where William’s wife is during this census but I’m almost sure she is still alive. I’m going to try looking for her elsewhere, but we’ll just have to see what comes up.

When I plugged William Menzies and Ellen Patterson into Family Search, it brought up two more possible children. One, George Menzies, who served in the Spanish American War and died in Minnesota, and Arthur who lived in Boston. I haven’t linked either one of these through Derby baptismal and birth records yet. It’s on my To Do List though! Their birthplaces and dates fit exactly. I just have to get the paper evidence to back it up.

Now I’m off to find more!

Note: I am a paying World Membership Customer on Ancestry.com and I volunteer through FamilySearch’s indexing program. Other then those associations, I have no connection with these websites. I was not compensated to mention them or write things about them. Please don’t sue me, my fluffy pajamas have to be thrown away and I’m hanging on by a thread.

Menzies Cemetery Fun?

I know, I have a very strange sense of humor. Most genealogists I come across get the cemetery fun thing though. I mean I don’t see them as horrible, scary places. I see them as peaceful places to visit our ancestors.

So, onto the fun. Once I got the death certificate of John Menzies, it was time to dissect the information. Which I’ve done on the blog. After the dissection is time to follow leads. The lead I’m exploring today is the cemetery where John was buried, Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn.

My first stop was Find a Grave to see exactly where the cemetery was and if there was already a listing for John.

There wasn’t. Only one Menzies and it wasn’t John or his son Alexander (though I am curious… brother? maybe?). There are always more questions it seems. Then I decided since the Evergreen Cemetery in Brooklyn had a website, why not see if Greenwood did.

Not only did it have a website, it has an AMAZING website. I’m not apologizing for the caps, because caps are sometimes needed. The Evergreen Cemetery also has a burial database but I never found my family in it! This time I did. What I love about this database, is that it gives the lot and section number. There are 12 Menzies currently in the database. (Note that the database is not complete.)

My John Menzies is ninth down on the list! From just this search, I can also see the other people buried in the lot! This doesn’t mean it is everyone, just the ones by the last name Menzies. So who else is buried with John?

  1. Alexander Menzies – John’s third child, second son.
  2. George Menzies – John’s ninth child, fifth son.
  3. Jean Menzies – Alexander’s first wife I believe.
  4. John D Menzies – John’s fifth child, third son.
  5. Margaret J Menzies aka Poor Margaret from William’s Letter.

I can’t be sure of these relationships of course, until I confirm death dates/years. I actually had no idea of them except a general idea from census and marriage information. Except for Margaret, whose death is referred to in the letter between William and his sister Jane.

I also have to tell you that the cemetery does take genealogy requests! For $19.75 you can get an individual burial transcript, but if you pay $28.00 they’ll send you a whole plot of names and dates of internment! That’s pretty exciting for me, since I don’t get the opportunity to travel much.

Now all I have to do is overlay the cemetery map in Google Earth like I did for the Evergreen Cemetery. Then I’m set for a trip to Brooklyn this summer!

Note: I could say I have no affiliation with the cemetery but I’d be lying. My ancestors are buried there, so technically I do. However, I am receiving no encouragement or compensation for having a teenage fangirl moment over their website. I’m an amateur website designer, I can’t help it.

John Menzies

I made some progress in the Menzies line of my family tree!

Things that match up:

  • Age: This puts his birthdate at around 1805, which is what I’ve seen across all records so far.
  • Occupation: Sawyer. John was listed as a Sawyer when they lived in Liverpool.
  • Birthplace: John was indeed born in Scotland.
  • Year of Immigration: This lines of perfectly with what I found in the ship manifest.
  • Place of Death: Fits in with the area where John was living with his son, Alexander.

New facts:

  • Place of Burial: This cemetery is close to the cemetery I have to visit in Brooklyn. After looking on the website, I was even able to get a plot number!

I do wish that it had his parents names on here, but beggars can’t be choosers! I have a tentative set of Menzies in the Scotland parish records on FamilySearch that I’ve found and think is John’s parents and siblings. It would have nice to have known, but I’ll just keep digging!

Newark Evening News- September 27, 1890

Note: I did not transcribe these articles from the original. They were initially transcribed by Grace Leonard who has been working on the Love genealogy off and on for many years.

Newark Evening News; Saturday, September 27, 1890; Page 4;

HOW MRS. LOVE DIED

The Husband Held to Answer for Her Mysterious Death.

The jury empanelled by Coroner Roden to sit at the inquest in the case of Mrs. William W. W. Love returned a verdict yesterday afternoon setting forth that the woman came to her death September 22 from injuries received in falling down the cellar stairs of her residence in Roseland and that her husband was responsible for the fall.

The first witness examined yesterday was George DeCamp, who helped carry Mrs. Love upstairs. Her two children told him their parents had quarreled and their father pushed their mother down the cellar. Love said to witness and Constable Teed that his wife was only drunk and he did not desire any of their interference in his family affairs.

Constable Teed swore Love said he wished his wife would die, and several other witnesses also testified to his making the assertion. Love is out on bail at present, but he will probably be arrested and sent to jail to stand trial for manslaughter.

Love Family from my Family File, click for bigger

Newark Evening News; Monday, September 29, 1890; Page 1;

Love Not to be Rearrested

William W. W. Love, of Roseland, whom a coroner’s jury last week found responsible for causing the death of his wife, whom he threw down the cellar stairs at their home, is not to be rearrested. Constable Teed, who took Love into custody soon after the woman received her injuries, consulted with Prosecutor Crane about the matter, but as the latter decided that as Love was already under $1,000 bail for his appearance when wanted, he need not be rearrested.

Grace attempted to find further articles but was unsuccessful at the time. Leaving the outcome a mystery for us at the current time, thought we’re both pretty sure he didn’t have jail time.

Newark Evening News- September 25, 1890

Note: I did not transcribe these articles from the original. They were initially transcribed by Grace Leonard who has been working on the Love genealogy off and on for many years. It was this article that I was mostly hesitant account. There is a very emotional account given by my great-great grandmother Jennie Love-Thorward.

Newark Evening News; Thursday, September 25, 1890; Page 1

IS LOVE RESPONSIBLE?

HIS WIFE’S MYSTERIOUS DEATH

The case of Mrs. Love, Who Died at Livingston from Injuries, Inquired Into — Testimony Showing That the Couple Frequently Quarrelled

Coroner Roden began an investigation at the Courthouse yesterday afternoon in the circumstances attending the death of Mrs. William W. W. Love, of Roseland, who died from injuries received by a fall down the cellar stairs at her home on September 13. There were rumors that Love had pushed or thrown the woman down the stairs, and color was given to the statement by the fact that the couple were frequently quarrelling. Constable Teed arrested Love, and he gave bail in $1,000 to appear when wanted. The jury empanelled by the Coroner was composed of Z. H. DeCamp, James Harrison, Frank E. Williams, Walter D. Bush, C.R. Conklin, W.W. DeCamp and William Griffith, all of Roseland.

The first witness called was Alfred Love, the twelve-year-old son of the couple. The boy was in no wise embarrassed and gave his testimony in a straightforward manner. He swore that when he returned on the night of the tragedy, he found his mother absent but she soon returned. “She got supper ready and called father,” said the boy witness, “and then passed into the pantry while father was eating his supper. There was a quarrel and she tore father’s shirt. She slipped and fell down stairs.”

Upon cross-examination by Prosecutor Crane, witness said that he had been to Paterson with his father that day and the latter was angry at not finding his wife at home when he returned. She was at the house of one of her daughters nearby and she did not return for an hour. Love laid down on a lounge and went to sleep.

“Can you tell when a man is drunk?” asked Mr. Crane.

“No, I can’t,” said the witness.

QUARRELED AT THE SUPPER TABLE

“There was a quarrel at the supper table,” continued the boy, “but I don’t know what they said.” Mr. Crane’s questions had the effect of making the witness relapse into silence, he evidently becoming afraid to speak. He finally said he was sent to bed without his supper and that his sister knew about the rest of it. “Mother and Father were fighting,” added the boy, “and were pushing each other around the room. I went upstairs and heard Mother and my sister howling. Then I called for help for Mother who was lying on the cellar floor.”

The next witness was Jennie, the fourteen-year-old daughter of the dead woman.

Upon taking the stand she began weeping, and it was with difficulty that she could be sufficiently composed to give her testimony. She thought her father had been drinking when he came in and laid down on a lounge in the parlor. He and witness’s mother had a few words and afterward the latter went to the pantry for a bottle of beer. They had words over it and she caught him by the throat. There was a struggle and her mother fell down the cellar stairs. Her father made no attempt to go after her, and she laid at the bottom of the stairs until Constable Teed came in and removed her.

OFTEN FOUGHT BEFORE

“They have often fought before and hurt each other,” said the girl, “and I did not want them to do it again. Mother had about ten bottles of beer in the pantry that day and sent out for six more.”

At this point Lawyer Charles Graves, representing Love, asked the girl whether her mother had been drinking and was in the habit of drinking. She replied that she had.

“You can’t ask any more questions, Mr. Graves,” interposed the Coroner.

“I’d like to know why?” queried the lawyer.

“Because you haven’t the right to,” replied the Coroner.

“I have a right and purpose exercising it, too,” said the lawyer.

“If you do I’ll have you ejected; I am holding this inquest,” concluded Doctor Roden.

Dr. Peck testified that Mrs. Love was in a semi-conscious condition from the time she received her injuries until death. There was a discoloration on her neck. County Physician Wrightson swore that the woman was injured on both sides of the head and her skull was fractured, producing an effusion of blood and causing death. Dr. Wrightson said he did not think all the wounds could have been caused by falling downstairs. The inquest will be continued tomorrow afternoon.

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